By David John Chávez, with Jeffrey Lo
Jeffrey Lo is a Filipino-American playwright and director based in the Bay Area. As a recipient of the Leigh Weimers Emerging Artist Award, the Emerging Artist Laureate by Arts Council Silicon Valley and Theatre Bay Area Director’s TITAN Award, he is a leading theatre maker in the area.
David John Chávez: The first show I saw the day after the election was Oh, Mary! on Broadway. And there’s a moment where Abraham Lincoln (played by Conrad Ricamora) says something, and I’m paraphrasing here, like ‘Everything in this country is all screwed up!’ And everyone just kind of took in a collective big sigh and cheered, because that’s what you do; You land in a communal space, kind of wallow in your own misery, and there it is. Now that’s a long winded way of asking a question, but the question is, what was it like for you to make art from 2016 – 2020, and what’s it going to be like for you to make art now through at least the next four years?
Jeffrey Lo: Wow, well that’s a big, ol’ question! And it’s interesting, because in those years, I was in a really different spot where I didn’t have as much pull to sort of choose my projects as I do now. I don’t know how much of what I chose to do changed during that time, but what was being chosen around or what I was asked to do was affected by that time. If I’m thinking about the next four years, compared to eight years ago, I think the response is going to be super different because of the difference in climate that we’re in as artists, as arts organizations and the emotional energy that we are dealing with now.
From 2016 – 2020, perhaps after a while, that work maybe got a little exhausting, and not that it didn’t have value and not that everyone was doing it, but to really hone in on this work for good reasons in response to that thing, can get tiresome. You know, you get too much of one thing, and even if there’s a little bit of variety, it can get exhausting.
“I think in these years we are currently in, I think the number of opportunities theaters have to do something where they don’t have to worry about sales is few and far between, and it’s hard and that sucks.”
Chávez: What do you see as being the biggest difference in climate today than eight years ago?
Lo: In 2016, not that everyone was in a good spot, because we were coming out of a lot of things, but then, arts organizations were healthier and there were more of them. So in some way, the sort of leeway where there was a lot more institutional funding, a lot more subscribers meant there was a lot more leeway. In a theater company, when you have eight shows, three of those will sort of make up the difference for the other five. And we’ll do five that are sort of political, or sort of heavy, or even do this thing where we’re not sure if it’s going to sell tickets, but it’s not really the point.
I think in these years we are currently in, I think the number of opportunities theaters have to do something where they don’t have to worry about sales is few and far between, and it’s hard and that sucks.
I think what’s interesting is, in 2016, it was so surprising to a lot of people, and there was sort of like this galvanization – we have to use our platform, use our art, we have to be part of this and do something. And that’s still happening today, but we all know what happened in 2020, and I would say that galvanization then was even stronger than 2016.
Chávez: How do you compare both of those moments of galvanization, both in 2016 and then how the George Floyd killing impacted everything in the midst of the pandemic?
Lo: People really shifted their focus to 2020, and we still have remnants of that today, but it was really at the forefront, until at least 2022. In those two years, it was like 100 percent of the work was in response to everything that was around us. And the thing that I reflect on, and what some people are reflecting, which is important, is the need for artists to have more audiences, more interaction, because we don’t have as much rope financially as we did before, and even then, it was so little. But it wasn’t just those two years, but it’s been eight years of really feeling galvanized to do work that was going to move the needle in a social justice way. And obviously, there’s still so much value in that, and that work should still be done and it’s so beautiful and important.
With other artists I speak with, especially people who are part of marginalized communities, joy is still so important, levity in a moment, take in deep breaths, taking some enjoyment, take in joy so you can move forward and go on to the next show or the next piece of art, even if it’s the next week, do the thing that’s going to move the needle to make the world a better place.
In 2016, and certainly in 2020 onward, I certainly had this feeling that it was hard for me to feel like I should do anything but fight or try and make a difference. And there’s a big reminder of yes, you have to do both, because otherwise, we lose our minds.
Chávez: Most recently, you’ve directed Miss Bennet: Christmas at Pemberley at TheatreWorks Silicon Valley, not long after the election. How did the election impact you and your cast in the rehearsal room?
Lo: (Laughter) It was hard for me for a bit, right? The play is joyous and set in the Regency period, people are fairly wealthy and wear pretty costumes. There are critiques in the show about the choices men have versus the choices women have, but that’s not at the forefront of the story. It’s a joyous romantic comedy, and I got to work on this with like-minded artists and we decided we were going to create joy in the world. We’re going to create joy within ourselves and rejuvenate ourselves, rejuvenate audiences who will hopefully go out and make a difference, even in our show isn’t about making a difference necessarily.
“And there’s a part of me that said, okay, I don’t know if it’s gonna happen, but does that make some space for real change to happen, where we’re forced to make the change?”
Chávez: Alright, well on another subject somewhat – what’s the status of your writing career.
Lo: (Pause, then a chuckle) I don’t know, man (more laughter).
Chávez: I mean, you obviously get lots of directing gigs, and have always had your hands in the mix of some directing, and then you have the day job (Lo is associate producer of casting and literary management). You’re well-documented in terms of what you do, so does this next four years which will likely be filled with chaos, does it make you feel differently or make you more anxious? Because you are a playwright.
Lo: I’ll say this – I don’t know that it’s changing the writing in a very explicit way. I think my mind is my mind, and it sort of alters a little bit more towards shows I am interested in looking at as a director or producer more than as a writer. Writing a play takes so long and takes so much time, and the plays I’ll be working on this year as a writer are things that have been on my mind for two or three years.
Chávez: I don’t want to make this depressing the whole time. I do have some questions about joy and happiness, but you said something really interesting. In 2016, there was a lot of anxiety about, the next four years would look like. And, of course, you know, depending on what side of the coin you’re on, it was pretty shitty. Every day was something new, and it just kind of got progressively worse. And sometimes you just couldn’t avoid talking about current events, because you know that the art that’s being made, the writing is in response to what’s happening. So I found myself having conversations like, ‘How does what’s happening impact your work?’ And, you know, and that’s why the last four years were like, okay, I didn’t have to dive into that topic. Of course, theater is always informed by the world that’s surrounding it. You can’t avoid that part of it. And then obviously the pandemic had a whole nother level that just was, how do we deal with that?
So when you said 2016 organizations were healthier, we know they’re not as much anymore. There’s been a lot of ink documenting the fall of the MAP Foundation grants, the Doris Duke, money that funded a lot of careers to help and keep talented people afloat so they could keep doing their thing. Because, you know, it’s more than just an amenity of life, but something that’s critical in many ways and people have had to get creative. Do you still feel, as someone that’s full-blown in the world of theater making, pretty hopeful that we’re going to continue to climb out of the holes we’re in? Or does this feel maybe it’s as desolate as it’s ever been for you personally?
Lo: It’s never been worse. For me, I’ve never seen it worse. But, you know, I’ve only been doing this professionally since, like, 2010 and I’m sure there have been worse times before I was really actively a part of this. Maybe, I don’t know. I’ll say that it’s a really scary time. Yeah, every time the theater closes, it’s really scary. And the whammy of all of these things sort of compounded on top of each other, right? Like funding going away, subscriptions lowering. The hope was that before the pandemic, our core subscription bases would be present, and then we could work towards getting younger audiences to also participate. But the fact of the matter is, the pandemic made it so, for many different reasons, people aren’t coming to theater as much as they used to, so that’s scary. I don’t know the solution of how to get out of all, but I will say this; All of the large organizations, the really impactful organizations, even the ones now don’t feel as strong. I remember that when I was coming up as a student, I would read these books about how companies were founded, how they grew into what they were. There’s a small theater company handbook I read that talked about how these huge theaters started from something small, like Berkeley Rep and Steppenwolf, and so many of these theaters that are now stalwarts
They all started from something small. Again, it’s so scary. It’s like going through a breakup, you’re like, This could be something exciting, because then I can meet someone new, or I can be a part of I can have an amazing single life, or there’s like a free up something of myself to discover something new or it’s going to be terrible. You don’t know, right? There’s a part of me that’s like a lot of organizations that were maybe repetitive, maybe toxic, a lot of organizations that were even changed in different ways, be it artistically, how they function, who was in charge, took up every last bit of air that we had, every last bit of funding that was out there, every last audience member, every last bit of attention, every last bit of news coverage.
And there’s a part of me that said, okay, I don’t know if it’s gonna happen, but does that make some space for real change to happen, where we’re forced to make the change? We are the young and exciting artists that are going to come up and start a new company, start something new, start something that really galvanizes the community, people that haven’t normally been supporting theater, now realizing the amazingness of theater, what it can do and support it that way.
I have a lot of faith it’s going to surprise a lot of people, and a show like that can open a lot of people’s eyes.
Lo: Not that this is happening, but let’s just say, for example, what happens if, you know, Berkeley Rep, and they seem like they’re doing fine financially. But let’s say, in a hypothetical, Berkeley Rep had to vacate one of their big spaces and Oakland Theater Project got it. That would be really interesting, right?
Chávez: It would be.
Now in this hypothetical, that’s really tragic, and I don’t want any more theater companies to close down. That’s people’s jobs, that’s opportunities. But since it’s happened, unfortunately, tragically, the part of me that wants to be optimistic is like, let us make space for new because the things that are in the status quo, not all of them were able to stay.
Chávez: What are you really excited about going forward?
Lo: I’m really excited about Happy Pleasant Valley by Min Khang. He’s a Bay Area playwright and the small picture is that it’s going to be so much fun. The fact that the musical is going to get the chance to go up and I get to be a part of it is very exciting. There’s a world where there’s so many paths where that music doesn’t make it out of Min’s mind, and the fact that we’re doing it is so exciting.
I have a lot of faith it’s going to surprise a lot of people, and a show like that can open a lot of people’s eyes. There’s something different when we’re not saying, let’s do ‘Fiddler’ again, let’s do whatever musical is going to sell a bunch of tickets, let’s do 39 Steps or The Play That Goes Wrong. All fun things, right? I’m not backtracking, I love doing fun, but this is new. The idea, the style, all new.
Chávez: Ok, a few other things. How does Drake ever show his face again after what Kendrick did to him?
Lo: It’s fine, he’s rich.
Chávez: Has Bay F.C. taken over your love for the Warriors?
Lo: No, no, no, but they’re great.
This interview was edited for length, grammar, and clarity.